Talk:New Sith Order
I can't seem to find NSO's treaties on here. --Supercoolyllow (talk • ) 20:38, February 13, 2010 (UTC) Fixed. -Griff066 Wars Please stop claiming our wars were defeats instead of the strategic victories they really were, thanks --Dpbj602 White Peace "The Alliance of the New Sith Order does hereby accept the offer of Peace from the Legion and withdraws from the field of battle." http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106500&st=0 "White peace refers to when alliances declare peace in a conflict without being subject to any formal terms or conditions." Fits the definition used by CN Wiki. Placed there by a neutral third party, as opposed to a a biased party (i.e. a member of NSO or an enemy of NSO). LordCyvole (talk • ) 21:09, November 6, 2011 (UTC) "The NSO didn't win" http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106500&view=findpost&p=2840569 A Sith Imperator Emeritus acknowledging that the NSO did not win the war. Note, no admission of defeat either. LordCyvole (talk • ) 21:27, November 6, 2011 (UTC) Irrespective of personal opinion on the matter, White Peace was formally offered and accepted by parties at war. Mantineia (talk • ) 21:46, November 6, 2011 (UTC) :Completely euphimistic though, for the purposes of accurately archiving the outcome of the war it should be recorded as a defeat on this article. --Serkr (talk • ) 21:59, November 6, 2011 (UTC) ::Receiving white peace is not a euphemism. Why aren't we arguing about the FARK war? NSO lost much more in statistics in that war and yet they still received white peace, just as in this war. Poster forgot to sign this comment Krunk the Great, Lord Angry Nun of the Sith, Rockin the Dpbj602 22:15, November 6, 2011 (UTC) If we follow the template used in the wars above it then it would be classed as a Coalition Defeat, white peace. If we are including the Coalition status, if we are not then someone needs to go and edit the PB-NpO war listing ShouAS (talk) I'd argue with changing all three of those to "NSO Defeat" as in each case the government of the New Sith Order surrendered to the forces attacking them. Quite frankly, anything outside of "NSO Victory", "NSO Defeat", and "White Peace" unnecessarily add complexity to the issue. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100273 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=81775 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=91190 LordCyvole (talk • ) 22:19, November 6, 2011 (UTC) I agree with LordCyvole to a point. I disagree on the use of White Peace, which is not a description of who won or lost a war... it's a description of the terms required to exit the war... in this case, none. On the table here, it should be either NSO Victory or NSO Defeat, and the white peace part can happen on the war's wiki article. Pezstar (talk • ) 22:29, November 6, 2011 (UTC) :Would "Defeat, White peace accepted" or something to that effect be alright? ::I think that's fair. The point is to be informative and honest in the description of events that played out. They were defeated and accepted white peace. It's fine to describe it that way.Pezstar (talk • ) 22:27, November 6, 2011 (UTC) ::I understand the general logic of the idea you're proposing, but without a definition of victory or defeat in terms of alliance wars, it would be hard to have a neutral and accurate decision made on whether to say they were defeated or not. Basing the outcome off the terms agreed by all alliance governments seems to be the best solution. In that case, perhaps it would be better to use "NSO Surrender" and "Opponent X Surrender" in place of "NSO Defeat" and "NSO Victory". LordCyvole (talk • ) 22:30, November 6, 2011 (UTC) ::In cases such as this, I don't think it's necessary to be so semantic about it. It's not a situation in which the outcome of the war is in question... it is clear that NSO lost. I can agree with you that in some situations, without a definition of such, calling it a win or a loss isn't in the best interest of accurate reporting. In this case, however, it's obvious, and judging by the OWF comments, the outcome is pretty heavily agreed upon. Pezstar (talk • ) 22:34, November 6, 2011 (UTC) ::The OWF quote says "New Sith Order does hereby accept the offer of Peace from the Legion" Since this implies Legion decided to offer white peace, rather then a mutual draw, it could be said that accepting the offer is an admission of defeat. I would only call it a draw if the peace off had said something like "NSO and Legion agree on white peace" ShouAS 22:53 November 6, 2011 (UTC) Without a surrender or admission of defeat, there is no defeat. Period. NSO and Legion reached a mutual agreement of white peace. OWF opinion does not change the fact that the war ended in white peace for NSO Krunk the Great, Lord Angry Nun of the Sith, Rockin the Dpbj602 22:54, November 6, 2011 (UTC) :: No one is debating whether or not there was a white peace. No one is really even seriously debating whether NSO lost the war... it's clear that they did. What we are debating is whether or not it's fair to call it a defeat, a "Strategic win", or white peace. Pezstar (talk • ) 22:56, November 6, 2011 (UTC) ::: It's not a win, I don't think anyone is saying that, but the agreement was of "peace" for NSO, not for NSO to admit defeat or surrender, so the only option of current terminology is "White Peace", there where no terms for NSO, even if it's a statistical defeat, they didn't sign to agree that they where defeated in the war. ::: The only alliance that admitted defeat was Tetris, if the result for NSO doesn't count as White Peace, then it doesn't count as White Peace for IAA/NsO/BTA either, they accepted peace, should their war results be changed as well? ::: --LittleRena (talk • ) 23:46, November 6, 2011 (UTC) :::: Pretty much everyone is saying that except for you, and NSO. Heck, even NSO has been pretty silent about that and haven't said it. As for IAA/NsO/BTA, they do not have war stats on their articles. If they did, we could go talk about their situation on those pages. ::::: Yes they do, you might want to go and check their pages, the only one of the 3 that doesn't is IAA. --LittleRena (talk • ) 00:01, November 7, 2011 (UTC) ::::: Objectively speaking debellatio (by Legion) was not achieved. Whether or not it could have been (even partially to the extent that NSO would have had to surrender) is unimportant for the correct designation of the end result of this conflict. Not Legion but a "third" party (not at war) forced the end result via an ultimatum. The only thing Legion formally achieved in this conflict was the acceptance of "white peace" by NSO. In view of that, "white peace" best describes the end result of this conflict. Mantineia (talk • ) 18:40, November 7, 2011 (UTC) I say we leave it as is and let NSO write their own wiki Krunk the Great, Lord Angry Nun of the Sith, Rockin the Dpbj602 17:54, November 12, 2011 (UTC) page fix The page is broken from the looks of it, the menu is showing inside the article for me.--LittleRena (talk • ) 09:32, January 2, 2012 (UTC) :The page is displaying just fine for me :3, I'm not entirely sure what could be wrong. }} }} January 2,2012 (ET) ::I'm using the MonoBook skin if you can check that.--LittleRena (talk • ) 10:38, January 2, 2012 (UTC) :::Ah gotcha, I'm using the CN:CSS skin, it's amazing :D }} }} January 2,2012 (ET) My preference is Monobook. Happy65 ' Talk WTF ' 17:33, February 26, 2013 (UTC)